Today I’m going to discuss the PVE Raiding Combat Build (20/51/0) I use, why most Combat rogues are using it and the rotation that I utilize to consistently top or be near the top of the damage meters.
Smashing 10man Toravon
20/51/0 Ruptureless
Weapons
Main Hand: Sword – Slow
Off Hand: Axe – Fast
Poisons
Main Hand: Instant
Off Hand: Deadly
Glyphs
Eviscerate
Sinister Strike
Killing Spree
BUILD
Combat has always been regarded as the mainstay rogue PVE talent tree
and continues to remain a strong option in WotLK. I choose a Combat PVE build over one of the viable Mutilate builds, mainly due to the playstyle of Combat builds. I like the builds flexibility in having both multi-target dps potential through abilities like Killing Spree (KS), Blade Flurry (BF) and Fan of Knives (FoK) and also great single target dps.
With the poison buffs Blizzard has implemented in patch 3.3 we have seen a move from the popular 15/51/5 Combat build to the more poison focused 20/51/0 Combat build. The buff to Deadly Poison in patch 3.3 ensures that Deadly Poison will now proc Instant Poison once it has reached 5 stacks on a target. This means that Combat rogues have returned to using Instant Poison instead of Wound Poison on their Main Hand weapon, and continue to place Deadly Poison on a fast Off Hand weapon to ensure fast stacking of Deadly Poison and triggering Instant Poison thereafter.
The added benefit from poisons has shown to increase dps when putting points in [Vile Poisons] and [Improved Poisons] instead of the popular and reliable [Relentless Strikes]. Rogues that choose to stay with [Relentless Strikes] can continue to use Wound Poison as they will not have the appropriate Instant Poison buffs available in the Assassination Tree to take full advantage of the patch 3.3 changes. However with the lack of poison dependency 15/51/5 rogues will be unable to complete equally with 20/51/0 rogues on single target encounters.
ROTATION
Once you get the hang of your Combat build and the special abilities that come with it you will realize that there is really no set rotation that you must strictly follow. To be honest it is quite simple to use, but takes time and experience to master.
What I do in a raid environment:
- First thing I do is Tricks of the Trade (TotT) on the tank. I have a focus macro setup for this.
- I will then usually start with a Garrotte and then get Slice and Dice (SnD) up straight away (it is very important that you do not let SnD fall off as it increases your dps significantly).
- If I start out, out-of-stealth I will do a Sinister Strike (SS) and similarly get SnD up.
- Now depending on what type of scenario you are in I do either of the following:
- Single Trash target
- I will SS until 5 combo points (cp) are accumulated and then use Eviscerate (if SnD is still up). However on trash mobs you will usually not get to 5 cps.
- Multiple Trash targets
- If there are more than 2 targets I will hit FoK and then KS if it is up. I will then spam FoK. Usually trash mobs in Heroics die very fast so there is no need to blow all your cds on a single group. I usually alternate KS and BF between groups and spam FoK. If you notice only one target alive switch to SS. Always make sure SnD is up. I time my AR so that I always have it up for the Bosses. (I find that AR is not very effective on trash mobs in Heroics anyway because they go down way to fast to make full use of the ability)
- For harder-to-kill trash mobs such as those in ICC I pretty much follow the same strategy. I hit FoK and then KS if it is up. I then hit AR and BF and continue spamming FoK (make sure that you are targeting your tank’s target). I blow all my cds as fast as possible because ICC mobs have a lot of HP and it takes a while for them to go down so stacking your abilities on these guys ensures your dps goes through the roof! It usually takes about 30-40 seconds to down an ICC trash group so you will at least have KS available for every group you face (if you have the KS glyph) and BF for every second group.
- Boss
- For tank-n-spank boss fights such as Saurfang or Festergut I hit SS a couple of times after SnD is up after initial contact then hit KS and blow my other cooldowns thereafter. I then spam SS until 5 cps and Eviscerate if SnD is still up. I TotT the tank when it is up and use my abilities as soon as they come off cooldown.
Remember!
- Refresh your TotT on your tank when it is up.
- Dismantle when possible to ease the pressure on tanks. Interrupt the target through Kick whenever possible. I.E DeathWhisper in ICC or Jaraxxus in ToC.
- For mobs that aoe such as the skeletons in ICC use Feint right before they explode as it halves the damage you receive. This eases the healers job and can save your life in situations.
- Make sure SnD is up at all times. If not get it up asap
- Never use KS with AR because you will cap out on Energy. Similarly only use KS when you have low Energy.
Summary
As you can see there is no strict rotation Combat rogues follow and it does vary depending on your situation. Most important thing to note is to always keep your SnD up as this provides a signifcant boost to your dps. Vary the number of combo points you SnD depending on when it is about to fall off. Use your special abilities (KS, BF, AR) as often as possible and during the right situations. Eviscerate at 5 cps. Never use KS with AR. Use FoK when fighting more than two targets and lastly don’t forget to TotT your tank whenever it is up.
If you liked this post please rate and leave any comments that you may have. I would love to hear from other rogues about the rotations they use and the success they have had with them. Thanks for reading.
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hey got a question ive got black knights rondel and nighttime BKL in main hand and NT in off hand is this bad??? tips if i should change it up???
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Skorne Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at
Hey itson,
From your weapons im assuming you are combat specced? Your weapon makeup isn’t the best. You need a slow weapon like Nighttime for your main hand and fast OH weapon (1.5speed). The slow main hand will make you hit harder with its larger base damage and your fast OH will ensure you get your deadly poisons stacks up asap. Also try and get either two maces or swords and axes so that you can choose a weapon specialization. Hope that helps.
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Hi Skorne,
many thanks for the info provided and specially for writing it in a way that noobs like me can understand it
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Is Armor penetration important for this spec??
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Skorne Reply:
August 11th, 2010 at
Hey Funkycat,
Have a look at my post – “Gemming for PVE rogues – patch 3.3.3″. Hopefully that will answer your question.
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GUYs… i havea little question … i mean my rotation is
and sorry the spammm 
Garrote
sinister strike
SnD
killing spree
SS x 2
adrenaline rush
ss x 3 till hit 5 CP
eviscerate
SS x 2
SnS
but my question is … along the fight without the CD’s shall i use SnD with 1 cp? or 2? or 3? whats is best? i mean with 1? u can hit 5 cp and do 1 eviscerate.. and then SnD asap really close, but sometimes u cant hit the 5 CP and loose some dps. i was wondering if 5 CP and SnD is usefull but im not sure cuz u showld as many eviscerates as possible and with 5 CP in SnD i can do 2 eviscerates. thanks for reading
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Skorne Reply:
August 22nd, 2010 at
Hey Jugens,
As a general rule you should always use SnD over Eviscerate if SnD is about to finish. However in saying that there are times when Eviscerate would be more effective. This is something that you need to judge for yourself when your rogue is put in certain situations. For example when I run Heroics I find that trash mobs go down very fast so renewing my SnD would be a waste if the trash is about to die. In this type of situation I would use Eviscerate over SnD. Trash mobs in ICC are different as they have much more hp and here I make sure my SnD is always up. Also make sure your combat build includes Improved Slice n Dice.
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i have the right talents im not noob
100 % sure i can put 11 k dps on LK fight 10 men .. with 30 % buff … with 5922 gs ..
but i just have taht question i dunno … if is more effective to do 1 Cp SnD then get 5 CP eviscerate or get 5 cp for SnD and then get like 2-3 eviscerates with 5 CP … cuz 1 CP in SnD = waste 15 energy really dunno :S bhaaa
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Skorne Reply:
August 23rd, 2010 at
Jugans, as I said before I believe that your priority is to keep SnD up before using Eviscerate no matter how many combo points you currently have. I will try and make a video of my rotation on a tank and spank boss soon for those that are interested in what I do.
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i mean i finish the LK fight with 11 k dps
around 12 k in saurfang 10 men …
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exlent post
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This rotation is alright but my rotation would to be this :
SS
Snd
SS till 5 combo
Rupture
SnD If rupture procs a combo point if not ss then snd
build to 5 and then evis
Depending on the cycle and SS Glyph i can usually get a evis with rupture with plenty of time sitting on it. I think just eviscerating is a waste of time and that rupture is more dps over it
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Skorne Reply:
September 1st, 2010 at
Hi John,
The rotation I use and wrote about is a ruptureless rotation. However combat builds built around rupture can be quite effective if played well and are said to out dps ruptureless rotations by a small amount against tank n spank bosses such as Saurfang or Festergut but are weaker on fights with heavy swapping such as Putricide and Deathwhisper.
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Using Rupture actually lowers your DPS but increases your damage done overall, because as switching occurs dmg is still being done but your dps is being lower because of lost white attacks and yellows on top of the stacking DoT which gives your more dmg then a evis spec since you stop dps all together to switch. However as combat switching doesnt really hurt us because with ks its easy to switch. With slow weapons at 2.6 and a gearscore of 5400 im pulling over 8k dps compared to other combat rogues using your cycle at 6.5k (same gs) and they follow the simple guideline of SnD before everything else. After raids i do get asked how i do more damage them and i just simply tell them my rotation. Dont get me wrong or anything you can get away with evis but just saying your not putting out the true potential of the combat spec
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Skorne Reply:
September 2nd, 2010 at
Hi John,
Check out this post about rupture vs ruptureless rotations. It was obtained from Aldriana at Elitist Jerks and goes in more detail about what I mentioned in my previous post. Either way, I say if it works for you then stick with it, and your rupture build obviously works well for you. My ruptureless build works well for me. I sit on 11-11.5K throughout ICC25 and pull over 12.5K on Saurfang and Fester at the moment. Would be great for you to post a link to your armory for other eager rupture rogues to see
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-On my note : Sorry to not mention this in my last post but EVIS was mainly to use pvp in because of the burst dmg and to not have a dot on your target so you can use other abilites such as blind. I use Crippling and Wound Poison for pvp that way i can get in a cycle of cheap shot kidney shot and maybe killing spree ftw cause it is rape sauce in pvp
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Wow, by reading this, i have not only improved my dps by a little, i went from 4.5k to 6.5k dps !!! thank you veryyyyyyyy much for your time to post all this, You have great knowledge of your class, as do i.. i just needed the tips you provided to further improve my playing style! Thank you! Would loveto talk to ya, via email or however is best, about more tips, ect.. unless thats not what you do!
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Skorne Reply:
October 8th, 2010 at
Hey Ormaninus,
Glad to see you are getting such great results! You can contact me in-game if you have any questions. I’m on Nagrand (US).
Cheers Skorne
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what gems should i use?
armor penet?
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Hi John,
Well i’ll start telling you my gear score which is about 5.7k and my rotation:
Garrote
SS x2
SnD
SS up to 5cp
Eviscerate
AR, SS x5, Eviscerate till AR is over.
SS x3 then SnD then BF and KS.
Is this rotation good?
I mean on 10hc at Lord, Lady, and DS my dps was about to 6k-6.5k
If i do some mistake/s please help me.
Best regards,
Elf.
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hey ive got a pve combat based rogue, and am improvin gear by the day and i keep changin specs between assassination and combat. i need advice on which is better and my combat rotation is as it follows:
cheap shot while stealthed (stuns them for 4 seconds and awards cp)
from then i use SnD and within the 4 seconds are over ive done about 12-15k damage
sinister strike 2 times then energy is low, so then i use killing spree which cause an extra 12-15k damage
sinister strike another 3 times then eviscerate
that ends my rotation and i do good overall dps
now i need your advice
P.S SnD has not ended by the time i finish my rotation
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Hi dude hopefully from reading this i will be able to increase my dps as iv been having major trouble! Did my 1st hc’s a few months ago and was topping 4½k overall dps. Now its up to a little under 7k and im getting alot of grief from other players for my apparent lack of dps! I had no idea what they were talking about with ‘rotation’ until i read this and now i can tell u them training dummys in org are gonna get a bashing while i practice my rotations im conviscating off you
thanks again for your great post and i will let you know how i get on.
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There is apparently a bundle to identify about this. I think you made some nice points in features also.
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Hello,
I’m just starting playing 20/51/0 combat spec and I still do not get the rotation. Moreover, I’m not sure what glyphs should I have. For now I got those: g. of eviscerate, g. of KS and g. of SS.
I played as an assa rogue for 1 year and I now feel a bit confused playing as a combat one. I really loved combat spec for levelling my character and I would like to play it as best as possible in pve. May I ask for your help? (If anyone is still playing WOTLK, not CATA).
Regards
Zorza
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