Sunday, 12-August-2012 03:28 PM EST
Registered users: 110

Rogue Level 85 PVP Builds – 4.0.6

Posted on: Mar 02, 2011 | Author: Skorne

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (3 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...


With patch 4.0.6 out I would like to delve into some viable Subtlety and Assassination pvp builds and highlight the differences in play style between the two trees, primarily focusing on rotations, stat priorities, glyphs, pros and cons of each build, and the impact the patch has had.   

Prior to Cata coming out we saw Assassination as pretty much the only viable choice for pvp. Now in Cata with major talent tree changes we see Subtlety rise as a pvp contender. In the latest patch (4.0.6) Subtlety received a much needed damage boost and a slight utility nerf, while Assassination remained untouched (see Rogue Patch 4.0.6 Changes post). This change has made Subtlety competitive as a sustained damage dealer (but still substantially lower than Assassination) closing the gap between Assassination and Subtlety dps.   

Personally I prefer to play Subtlety as I believe its mobility and utility far outweighs Assassination’s sustained damage advantage. The current mobility state of Assassination is terrible. Assassination rogues are very exposed to kiting from classes such as hunters and mages and really only have sprint as a gap closer. Until mobility is addressed I will be sticking to Subtlety.


–> Large sustained damage
–> Spell damage debuff on opponents
–> Quick combo point regen
–> Little utility
–> Poor mobility
–> Dependency on poisons


Subtlety is an opener build that relies heavily on burst damage through abilities like Find Weakness and Shadow Dance and also cooldown usage to keep opponents controlled. It is regarded as the most challenging build to master due to its positional dependency (must be behind target to Backstab, Ambush, Garrote), its reliance on going in and out of stealth and its rotationless playstyle. But once mastered, it should be the preferred choice as it is really the only build of any sort of utility and mobility. Things such as  Gouge not breaking on your bleeds; using Shadowstep to easily stick to opponents and secure CC, and Shadow Dance effectively locking down opponents, not to mention having Preparation readily available is what makes Subtlety so attractive. There are two variations of Subtlety pvp builds that I have played around with.   


Subtlety Build 1 - 8/2/31   



Essential talents   

Secondary talents (handy talents to have)   

This build is regarded as the current cookie-cutter Subtlety level 85 pvp build. It skips Serrated Blades and Enveloping Shadows which are very lackluster in pvp.  Initiative  and Waylay are also rarely choosen by most rogues as other talents are more preferable and most rogues consider Waylay to be overkill when confident with their Crippling poison application.   

1 point is usually placed in HaT for the 5% crit buff and combo point generation (be wary when switching targets however). Sanguinary Vein is also recommended mainly for allowing Gouge not to break during bleeds. Cheat Death can regularly mean the difference between victory and death and has saved me countless times.   

The speed and healing buff from Quickening is the target in the Assassination tree. 3/3 Lethality and 2/3 Coup de Grace is your best option (dps wise) to get to Quickening and then put the remaining point into Puncturing Wounds for an increase in crit chance on your Backstab.   


Subtlety build 2 – 0/10/31   



Essential talents 
Secondary talents (handy talents to have)

This is the build I am currently playing and one which focuses on secondary talents from the Combat tree. The aim is to get to Improved Sprint in the Combat tree to enhance your mobility even further, making you virtually unkiteable. Once again Improved Recuperate  is taken and is pretty much a must have pvp talent for all pvp builds. A single point here is equivalent to over 300 resilience and the heal over time it grants is awesome, healing you for around 6K per tick with buffs! I find Precision coupled with the Glyph of Crippling Poison a handy talent in maintaining Crippling poison on my target. Aggression provides a nice dps increase on your Backstab and Eviscerate making it a good alternative to Lethality in the Assassination tree.


–> Good mobility
–> Lots of utility
–> 5% crit chance to party
–> High burst damage
–> Low sustained damage
–> Positional dependency
–> Challenging build to master


Assassination is a build that has potent sustained damage. It is all about offensive pressure, utilizing your stuns, bleeds and poisons to chip away at an opponent until they’re dead. While being able to hit like a truck, the build has a big problem with mobility. Assassination rogues are therefore very susceptible to kiting and you will often find it hard to reach and stay on your target.



Assassination build – 31/2/8



As stated above this build is all about offensive pressure on your target. Realistically you could allocate points anywhere within this tree except Deadly Momentum and Murderous Intent. Skipping Cut to the Chase and Improved Exposed Armor is also recommended as they are weak talents when compared  to awesome Subtlety talents like Relentless Strikes and Opportunity. One modification to this build is to sacrifice the dps gain from Opportunity for the survivability that Elusiveness provides, but this is personal preference (also remember that Elusiveness received a nerf in 4.0.6). 


Subtlety stat priority, rotation, poisons and glyphs

Priority: 5% hit cap > Agility >Haste > Mastery > Crit


As with all rogue builds, agility is your priority stat. Haste is great for your energy regen and you should reforge crit or mastery to haste where possible. Mastery is a weak stat for Subtlety but make sure its at 10 for the Slice n Dice buff (2% faster attack speed vs 4.0.3 if you have 10 mastery) if you do make regular use of Slice n Dice in your rotation (but most Sub rogues rarely use it).




As far as rotations go, there is no standard Subtlety rotation. Another reason why a Subtlety pvp build can be challenging to master. Depending on the target and their current level of hp I more often than not open with Garrote (which i have macroed with Premeditation), then always Shiv (unless I am going to use Kidney Shot), then hit Hemo, followed by Rupture. I rarely open with Cheap shot or Ambush because bleeds is what Subtlety rogues excel in so having Garotte and Rupture up is key. Furthermore opening with Garrote ignores armor and silences your target, an effect which can be extended with the Glyph of Garrote. I tend to leave Ambush for when I hit Shadow Dance or when my opponent is very low on hp.  

If I intend to use Shadow Dance on a target, I will usually use Kidney Shot instead of Shiv, and follow with up to 3 Ambushes and either Evicerate if they are almost dead else hit Rupture. 


After a 4-5 point Rupture, you can either apply a Backstab, get Recuperate up, then continue backstabbing until u need to refresh Recuperate, Hemo or Rupture. Or u can Vanish, Recuperate and Backstab.


After your initial attack on your opponent ensure that you keep Recuperate up at all times. Slice n Dice I rarely use and only really get up when I have a spare combo point handy.


Poisons to use: 


Wound Poison main hand, Crippling Poison off hand. Crippling Poison thrown. You can also try and use Wound Poison or Mind Numbing Poison on your off hand if you have specced in Waylay and are confident in its use.




The Prime Glyphs I currently use include:


Glyph of Slice n Dice may also prove to be an option with the buff to Slice n Dice in 4.0.6.


There are a lot of options when it comes to major glyphs. The ones I currently use include:


Glyph of Preparation is considered as mandatory for Subtlety PVP builds and I will probably end up swapping it back in for one of my current glyphs after some more testing. Glyph of Cloak of Shadows is also a viable option if u can afford to replace an existing one. 



Assassination stat priority, rotation, poisons and glyphs

Priority: 5% hit cap > Agility > Mastery >= Spell Penetration > Haste > Crit 

Mastery is actually an awesome stat for Assassination. The increase in poison damage that it provides outweighs the benefits of other stats like Haste and Crit.


Why Spell Pen you may ask? Well if you are an Assassination rogue you rely on poisons for a large portion of your damage. You will therefore want around 120 Spell Pen to cut through resistances which reduce your poison damage.


Rotation: Assassination is much easier to play than Subtlety. Your standard rotation includes either Garrote or Cheap shot (usually Garrote for the bleed and 5 second silence if glyphed), Mutilate and then either Kidney Shot or Rupture at 4-5 combo points (Rupture is usually used for Venomous Wounds energy procs). Then Mutilate, get Slice n Dice up, Envenom at 4-5 combo points if Rupture and SnD is still up. Only use Recuperate when you really need it as it has no regen benefits like the ones provided in a Subtlety build. 

Poisons to use: 

Instant Poison main hand, Deadly Poison off hand. Wound Poison or Mind Numbing Poison thrown.




The Prime Glyphs I used for Assassination:


Glyph of Slice n Dice is also a great option and should be used if you took Cut to the Chase. 

Major Glyphs include:


  • Glyph of Blind (Mandatory for Assassination)

Glyph of Garrote, Glyph of Gouge, and Glyph of Cloak of Shadows are other popular Assassination Major Glyphs. 


Final note

As we can see Assassination and Subtlety are two rogue builds that have very different playstyles. Some players like the easier playstyle of Assassination where you stun and wear down your opponent with superior sustained damage. Others prefer the more challenging Subtlety playstyle with its high mobility and vast array of tricks. If you are mostly running battlegrounds I recommend using Subtlety as you won’t have a dedicated cleanser and you will get very frustrated from being kited constantly. For arenas you may want to use Assassination in 2v2 if paired with a healer for the heavy pressure that will be needed to down your opponent. However in 3v3 Subtlety will be your best bet due to its superior utility. At the end of the day pick the build that suits you most, and the build that you enjoy playing.

Patch 4.0.6 Upcoming Rogue Changes

Posted on: Jan 24, 2011 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (No Ratings Yet)
Loading ... Loading ...

Patch 4.0.6 has been announced and so since it is just around the corner here is your quick guide to the patch changes for a rogue. First of all you can view the full list of changes in patch 4.0.6 here. In the patch notes blue poster and community manager Zarhym details all the major updates that come with patch 4.0.6 that are currently being tested on the Public Test Realm (PTR) as we speak.

The latest changes on these patch notes include:

  • Combat Readiness now lasts for 20 seconds, down from 30 seconds, but the Combat Insight stacking buff lasts 10 seconds, up from 6 seconds.

  • Smoke Bomb now lasts for 5 seconds, down from 10 seconds.

  • Talent Specializations

    • Combat

    • Main Gauche (Mastery) now provides a chance to deal an attack for 75% of main-hand damage. This attack can trigger Combat Potency.

    • Revealing Strike now increases finisher effectiveness by 35% (45% glyphed), up from 20% (30% glyphed).

These patch notes are being updated and changed regularly so keep an eye on them closely as this information could vary. It looks like combat rogues can still expect to see a good buffing in the next patch to help give higher value to their mastery and Revealing Strike ability. This should also make combat rogues slightly more powerful to bring them even closer to Mutilate specs in raiding which should be good news for those rogues out there that are currently struggling to keep their combat build in raids. Do not worry however, this is not the full list of changes pertaining to rogues, Subtlety rogues are also getting a big boost to their mastery and specialisations in the next patch.

All Rogue Changes in Patch 4.0.6

The full list of rogue specific changes are:

  • Blind now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
  • Glyph of Garrote now increases the duration of Garrote by 1.5 seconds, down from 2.
  • Combat Readiness now lasts for 20 seconds, down from 30 seconds, but the Combat Insight stacking buff lasts 10 seconds, up from 6 seconds.
  • Crippling Poison now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
  • Garrote now costs 45 Energy, down from 50.
  • Sap now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
  • Smoke Bomb now lasts for 5 seconds, down from 10 seconds.
  • Stealth is no longer broken by enemies using Demoralizing Shout or Demoralizing Roar
  • Talent Specializations




  • Deadly Momentum critical strike bonus now lasts for 15 seconds, up from 10.



  • Blade Flurry is now a toggle that can be turned off by pressing the button again. In addition, this ability no longer has a fixed duration, but will go on cool down for 10 seconds after being canceled (similar to Stealth).

  • Main Gauche (Mastery) now provides a chance to deal an attack for 100% of main-hand damage. This attack can trigger Combat Potency.

  • Restless Blades now also reduces the cool down of Redirect.

  • Revealing Strike now increases finisher effectiveness by 35% (45% glyphed), up from 20% (30% glyphed).

  • Vitality now increases attack power by 25%, up from 20%.



  • Elusiveness now reduces the cool down of Cloak of Shadows by 10/20 seconds, down from 15/30 seconds.

  • Executioner (Mastery) has been increased from 2% to 2.5% per point.

  • Find Weakness now grants 35/70% armor reduction, up from 25/50%.

  • Preparation no longer resets the cool down of Evasion.

  • Sanguinary Vein now gives a rogue a 50/100% chance for their own Bleed effects to not break their Gouge.

  • Shadowstep’s cool down has been increased to 24 seconds, up from 20 seconds.

  • Sinister Calling now grants 30% Agility, up from 25%, and increases Backstab and Hemorrhage damage by an additional 40%, up from 25%.





  • Glyph of Garrote now increases the duration of Garrote by 1.5 seconds, down from 2.

As you can see there are plenty of rogue changes to get your teeth stuck into and you can expect new EP values for both Combat and Subtlety builds when this patch is released. In addition, more DPS testing will need to be undertaken to re-determine the value of abilities and compare these raiding builds accurately once again. It looks like only Mutilate has been left relatively alone in this next patch as Blizzard seem to be very content with that build as it is for now. The Garrote ability and glyph however that many  Mutilate players favour has been modified to be slightly more beneficial.

Non-Rogue Specific Changes

A few non-rogue specific changes also caught my eye in the next patch 4.0.6 that could have an indirect affect on rogues. First of all sockets are being added to all crafted epic items that do not already have one. That means the [Belt of Nefarious Whispers] will get a much needed extra socket in the next patch (/cheer).

Most strikingly though is that changes to Meta Gems, not only are we seeing the Meta Gems finally get fixed in Patch 4.0.6 to requires 3 red gems instead of more blue gems than red making them wholly viable again to use but the Patch is also bringing a few entirely new meta gems with it. The Agile Shadowspirit Diamond will be the traditional blend of Agility and 3% increased critical strike damage making the perfect bed mate for rogues of all builds.

There are also 3 new enchants available, one of which increases Agility by 50 which is rumoured to be a bracer enchant so this could very well become the best bracer enchant in Patch 4.0.6 easily replacing 65 Haste.

Finally the [Left eye of Rajh] has had it’s chance to trigger increased meaning a higher up time and a higher EP value making it even more powerful than it was before. For combat rogues it was already very powerful but Mutilate rogues may see it rise slightly in their table above the Halfus trinket [Essence of the Cyclone].

Rogue Enchants, Gems and Consumables – 4.0.3a

Posted on: Jan 14, 2011 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (No Ratings Yet)
Loading ... Loading ...

Rogue Gems Enchants and Consumables

Maximising your DPS first starts with knowing your class inside out including talent builds, glyphs and reforging. In addition to this you may also wish to make sure you have the very best enchants and gems in your rogue’s gear as well as the best buff food and flasks at your disposal. All of these things add up to great DPS for your rogue if done correctly.


The following is the general rule of thumb for gemming your rogue’s gear according to the socket colour:

Red Sockets: [Delicate Inferno Ruby] or [Delicate Chimera's Eye] (JC Only)
Yellow Sockets:
[Deft Ember Topaz] (Combat, Subtlety) or [Adept Ember Topaz] (Mutilate)
Blue Sockets:
[Glinting Demonseye]
Meta Socket: [Thundering Skyflare Diamond] (temporary) [Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond] (when fixed)

For any remaining hit or expertise required use reforging and gear to obtain these values. You may wish to ignore socket bonuses in some cases and use only [Delicate Inferno Ruby] instead in some of your gear items. To work out if this would be a benefit or a loss use the rogue EP values to determine the value of the gems with or without the socket bonus. Whether or not a socket bonus will be worth it is different with each individual gear item.


Flasks[Flask of the Winds]
Make sure you always have a flask active on your rogue during raiding. They persist through death and provide the best stats in the game so even though they may seem expensive at the moment compared to elixirs they are definitely worth the cost. If you guild has the appropriate achievement you may be able to use a Cauldron for raids instead which will provide the same flask.

Food - [Skewered Eel]
Always bring your own food with you to raids and ensure it is 90 Agility and not 60. Even if your raid leader provides equivalent feasts, you may not always get the feast throughout your raid especially if you die on your own on trash.

Potions[Potion of the Tol'vir]
This potion can be used once during a raid encounter instead of a health potion. This potion will maximise your DPS during burn phases and should be timed with Heroism/Bloodlust/Timewarp wherever possible to get the most benefit.

Scrolls – None
Scrolls are weak compared to other buffs and do not stack with Kings/GotW. They therefore have no use in raids.

Drums[Drums of Forgotten Kings]
If your raid does not have a Druid or a Paladin present you may wish to consider using these drums to give your raid an extra buff. However, if a druid or paladin is present these drums should not be used at all as they are inferior to the actual class buffs.


This is a full comprehensive list of the best enchants for a rogue given all the very best enchants in the game currently. Some of these may be more difficult to obtain than others.

Head: [Arcanum of Ramkahen] (Revered Ramkahen)
Shoulders: [Greater Inscription of Shattered Crystal] (Exalted Therazane)
Chest: [Peerless Stats]
Back: [Greater Critical Strike] (Mutilate, Combat) or [Major Agility] (Subtlety)
Wrists: [Greater Speed]
Hands: [Haste] (Combat, Subtlety) or [Greater Mastery] (Mutilate)
Waist: [Ebonsteel Belt Buckle]
Legs: [Dragonscale Leg Armor]
Feet: [Major Agility] or [Assassin's Step]
Weapon1: [Landslide]
Weapon2: [Landslide]

For those of you that cannot yet afford maelstrom crystals, you may wish to make the following substitutions for your enchants at the moment:

Chest: [Mighty Stats]
Back: [Major Agility]
Wrists: [Haste]
Weapon1: [Hurricane]
Weapon2: [Hurricane]

Some professions also have additional enchants that are superior to the ones shown here. Make sure you check what extra bonuses your professions give to your rogue and how you can use them to your advantage. Remember to compare EP values to find out which bonuses are worth using and which should be ignored.

Rogue Level 85 PVE Builds

Posted on: Dec 06, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (5 votes, average: 3.60 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...

Rogue 85 Builds

With the launch of Cataclysm you will no doubt want to get your rogue up to Level 85 straight away to start on the new Cataclysm content and experience all new heroic dungeons and raids. There are three main talent builds you may wish to consider using at Level 85 and each depends on your play style and requirements.Each talent build is subject to change in the future as we discover more about how rogues perform at Level 85 in Level 85 gear. However, this is a good starting point for any rogue who wants to maximise their DPS at Level 85.

Combat Max DPS Build

Combat rogues do not use stealth in combat, they are exceptionally good at multiple targets and fights that require a lot of target switching and can easily switch rotations to suit the fight needs.

Combat Level 85 Build 7/31/3

This build has 4 changeable talent points that must remain in the Combat section of the tree in order to progress further down it. These talent points are currently in [Reinforced Leather] and [Improved Recuperate] to improve survivability which is also beneficial whilst leveling your rogue from 80 to 85. This build focuses on more Eviscerate Damage as opposed to more combo point generation and keeps the original 3/3 [Relentless Strikes] for energy regains.

Assassination Max DPS Build

Assassination rogues open up combat with stealth and rely heavily on poison damage. Assassination rogues excel particularly well at single target fights.

Mutilate Level 85 Build 31/2/8

You will notice this talent build has only 2/3 [Precision]. This is particularly useful when you first hit Level 85 and your main activity is grinding heroic dungeons where less hit is needed. However, this does mean that once you start raiding you will need to keep a closer eye on your hit levels than other rogues because you start out with much less. This build also places 2 of the 3 changeable talent points into 2/2 [Quickening] on the basis that is will help improve damage up time instead of DPS and it also leaves Mutilate rogues free to skip out on speed enchants in favour of more DPS beneficial ones.

This build also has two points in [Nightstalker] which is another talent that does not affect DPS This is in order to progress further down the Subtlety Tree to the true goal of 3/3 [Opportunity].

Subtlety – Rotation Help Build

Subtlety Rogues use quite a complex rotation in PVE with a long ramp up time. This means they are better suited to single target fights. They also use Stealth and a wide variety of abilities.

Subtlety Level 85 Build 0/10/31

This build focuses on perfecting the Subtlety Rotation by obtaining [Improved Slice and Dice] in order to make the rotation more manageable. Unlike the Level 80 build this talent build focuses entirely on the Combat Tree once the Subtlety tree is completed in order to obtain 3/3 [Aggression] and keep 3/3 [Precision] to make raiding hit easier to obtain. This build is one of the more flexible and debated builds within the rogue community.

Subtlety Max DPS Build

Subtlety Level 85 Build 8/2/31

This build almost entirely ignores the Combat Tree in favour of my direct DPS enhancing talent points in Assassination. However it does still maintain 2/3 [Precision] to allow you to more easily reach (or close in on) the poison hit cap. This is the build for raiding subtlety rogues who are very comfortable with their rotation.

Which Build is the Best?

When your target mob is above 35% health Combat rogues are the top DPS build. However once the target mob falls below 35% Mutilate rogues have a significant upper hand by 15% damage. This evens out to roughly make Mutilate the top DPS Build with Combat and extremely close second. However, because Combat is more suitable to tricky raid situations than Mutilate is, Combat will usually be stronger in these fights and you will often see these two builds switching places throughout the raid. This means both Combat and Mutilate are viable raid PVE builds at level 85. Subtlety rogues however fall below both Mutilate and Combat rogues as well as having a unique and difficult rotation with a lengthy ramp up time. This means Subtlety, while much better now in PVE is still not a reasonable raiding choice for maximising DPS.

Subtlety Rogue Guide 4.0.3+

Posted on: Nov 28, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (4 votes, average: 4.00 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...

Subtlety Rogue Guide 4.0.3

The Subtlety rogue has not always been considered in the past as a viable PVE talent build for rogues and usually only used in PVP situations where it is exceptionally strong. However, since patch 4.0.1 more and more rogues have been testing out Subtlety builds in PV situations and reporting great success. Since the 4.0.1 combat scare many combat rogues switched builds to subtlety too, so this guide should help you on your feet in this relatively new world of PVE DPS for rogues.

Talent Build

First of all you will need a talent build to get you started. At level 80 your talent build should look like this:

Subtlety Talent Build Level 80

If you are looking for level 85 talent builds these have not yet been decided upon but many rogues are leaning towards a Sub/Combat mix for level 85. A good place to start for a level 85 talent build is this:

Subtlety Talent Build Level 85


The rotation for Subtlety is often seen by many rogues are the most complex rotation of all three builds. However, once mastered it is very powerful in PVE and particularly excels at single target “tank and spank” fights (i.e. Saurfang ICC).

1. premed/shadow step/ambush =  5 CP
2. SnD
3. hemo/backstab to 5 CP
5. rupture
6. shadow dance/premed/shadowstep/ambush
7. recuperate
8. ambush/backstab to 5 CP
9. eviscerate

It is thought you may want to leave Hemo out entirely except when target switching if you prefer. This is entirely up to you at the moment with the Subtlety rotation.

As you can see from the basic structure of this rotation the idea is to use your ShS/ShD/Ambush where ever possible and fill the remaining time with backstabs to generate combo points. In terms of finishers Subtlety rogues need to keep three main finishers up at all times:

  • Slice and Dice
  • Rupture
  • Recuperate

You may find the inclusion of Recuperate odd as a non damage dealing buff, however coupled with the talent [Energetic Recovery] every time your recuperate ticks you will gain extra energy making recuperate highly valuable. It may seem like a lot to keep up at first but Subtlety rogues also have the talent point [Serrated Blades] which refreshes your rupture every time you use eviscerate.

Therefore once you have all three finishers active you can keep them going by rotating Slice and Dice, Eviscerate and Recuperate finishers. This can be tricky at first so it’s recommended you get as much practice in as possible on a target dummy and in dungeons beforehand.


Glyphs for a subtlety rogue can be tricky to decide upon especially with the major glyphs. Make sure you have a good stock of all the glyphs your sub rogue could use as you may find them very situationally handy.

Major Glyphs

[Glyph of Backstab]

[Glyph of Slice and Dice]

Then one of the following:

[Glyph of Hemorrhage] – Remember that Hemo is worthless without this glyph.
[Glyph of Rupture] – If not using Hemo this will help keep your rotation smooth.

Major Glyphs

[Glyph of Sprint] (Improves Damage Uptime).

Then any other two major glyphs. Good examples are:
[Glyph of Premeditation]
[Glyph of Ambush]

Minor Glyphs

[Glyph of Poisons] (Optional)

[Glyph of Safe Fall] (Highly Recommended)

Then any one other minor glyph.


Subtlety Weapon choices are at the moment the same as Mutilate rogues. Sub rogues need to use daggers in order to use Backstab in their rotation and the preferred weapon speed type is 1.8 in the main hand and 1.4 in the off hand.

Stats Priorities

This is the order of priority you should place your stats in when considering reforging and gemming. It is essentially the same as a Combat rogue which mean reforging crit for mastery when poison hit capped is not a good idea in general.

Agility >> Expertise > Spell Hit = Haste > Crit >> White Hit > Mastery > AP.

This means when considering other aspects of Subtlety rogues such as Consumables, Enchants and Reforging looking at combat rogue choices is a good place to start. You can find more information on these here:

Gemming for Rogues

Reforging for Rogues

Enchants and Consumables

Combat Rogues in the Future of WoW

Posted on: Nov 06, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (1 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...

Survive as a Combat rogue in patch 4.0.1

Since patch 4.0.1 combat rogues have taken a very nasty blow to their DPS. Many people are struggling to cope with the changes and thinking of retiring as a combat rogue entirely. This post will hopefully provide some useful information about these problems as well as provide help for the combat rogues out there that haven’t yet given up hope.

In terms of how each build stacks up against the other the current rumours are that Mutilate and Subtlety are the new PVE kings leaving combat in the dust. While this may be true to some extent it’s not quite time to hang up your combat axes just yet.

First of all I’d like to bring your attention to the first post in the EJ Patch 4.0.1 rogue thread which provides a brief summary of what we know so far:

Okay, which of those is best?
Good question. We don’t know.

We don’t know. Stop asking.

 Quoted from Elitist Jerks Forums

With this in mind remember that Blizzard are indeed thinking about this problem as well. With raiding coming to a close in Wrath and Cataclysm a mere weeks away now it’s up to us to perfect our combat rogues and embrace the changes. It is a very real threat that we combat rogues may have to switch to Mutilate or Sub but I wouldn’t jump into action just yet.

It seems Blizzard is aware of the problems facing combat rogues at the moment and are starting to attempt to fix things slowly. Many combat rogue abilities have been buffed along with mastery values already. You can also expect many more changes to come in the future too so do not despair quite yet, let’s give them a chance to fix things first.


Both Combat rogues and Mutilate rogues saw a boost in mastery but only Mutilate rogues seem to have benefited from the boost. Mastery EP values for Mutilate have increased to 1.9 up from 1.7 which now makes it a reforge-able stat for them in place of white hit. This means Mutilate rogues can now reforge crit into mastery on gear that already has haste on it, once they are above the poison cap. Unfortunately, combat rogues have not seen this beloved change and remain at an EP value of 0.6 meaning Mastery is still very much worthless.

This is a massive problem for combat rogues and leaves us with a bitter taste in our mouths. The promises of 400% mastery rating effectiveness now even out at about 60% and still the stat is sub-standard as a reforging option. Not exactly the diamond studded stat we were hoping for.


The humble combat rogue now has plenty of macros to juggle for seamless game play. With the introduction of Revealing Strike and the strong favour of rupture rotations it seems we will need macros more so than ever now to improve our rotation accuracy. For many of you hardcore raiding rogues out there with Engineering this can seem very daunting and more than a bit of a headache.

For engineers they should already have something like this for their macros:

/Cast Sinister Strike
/Cast Saronite Bomb

This macro allows the user to activate their Saronite Bombs whenever they do not have enough energy to perform a Sinister Strike. This allows them to click the aoe symbol on the location they want to throw the bomb whenever the bomb has cooled down without needing to keep an eye on the item during the encounter.

/Use Aldriana’s Gloves of Secrecy

This macro uses the rogue gloves with the engineering enchant Hyperspeed Accelerators on it. The glove name will change depending on your own gloves of course.

You may also wish to add another macro which rotates between Sprint and Rocket Boots on a single key to cut down on extra key space.

With regards to your rotation you should consider a sequence macro to rotate a single button between your finisher of choice and Revealing Strike. This will help to prevent you from pressing RvS at the wrong time or forgetting it and missing it entirely. This button should then follow a slightly different rotation method to accommodate for this.

A cast sequence macro is very simple and should look something like this:

/castsequence reset=2 Revealing Strike, Eviscerate

This will rotate between Revealing Strike and Eviscerate once pressed. You will need to follow something similar to this rotation to use this properly:

1. SS x 3
2. SnD
3. SS x 3
4. EvisMacro
5. if combo points = 5 then Evis Macro, if combo points = 4 then SS x 1 then Evis Macro

You should also include rupture into this rotation if properly glyphed etc particularly for tank and spank fights. Rupture will also need to follow the same rules with an RVS/Rupture cast sequence macro.

However, you can also use the macro constantly at 4 points and then use an alternative evis only button at 5 combo points to be even more accurate. This is because it is unavoidable to waste combo points as a combat rogue but RvS decreases your dps if used after 5 CP. This is what makes combat rotations and abilities so much more confusing and hard to master. Do not expect to perfect this rotation overnight no matter how skilled you are. If you are having troubles with your new macros or rotation then spend long periods of time on the training dummies! Hours, weeks, months if you have to to make sure you perfect the rotation as much as possible.

Gear Scaling

This is also a major problem for combat rogues. Mutilate always had the upper hand for raiding builds until combat started reaching new levels of gear scaling that mutilate could not hope to achieve. With the removal of Armor Penetration from the game it looks like combat rogues in current gear are suffering tremendously. No longer able to take advantage of crazy gear scaling our dps has actually taken a blow overall from pre-patch dps as opposed to Mutilate rogues who have seen an increase to dps. This is where many rogues have started crying into their pillows at night. It was supposed that Mastery when boosted might fix some of these problems for us but as of yet we’ve seen no beneficial changes overall.


Okay okay enough bad news already! Notice this post from WoW Insider about weapons for combat rogues:

Combat rogues can use any main-hand weapon, as long as it’s slow.

If I’m using an axe in my main hand, as I often do, I want to be using an axe in my off hand. It’s just that simple. However, with Combat Potency and Deadly Poison emphasizing the importance of a quick off-hand weapon, daggers are going to yield better DPS

Quoted from WoW Insider

Sounds like bad news to many who like symmetrical weaponry (myself included) but think about this for a moment… at least we can start stealing all those tasty daggers from the Mutilate rogues in earnest now. No longer will we have to wait for a lucky drop of say umm 2 axes or so from ICC that fit the bill. Now we can roll on those daggers too unashamedly and that gives us all a much better chance of getting a decent level of gear from those with unlucky weapon drops. Not to mention [Heaven's Fall, Kryss of a Thousand Lies] we were previously unable to roll on. Okay so it’s not enough to make us a raiding viable build but it brings a quiet smile to some. Of course do not forget our optimal weapon speed for an Off-Hand dagger is 1.4 unlike the Heaven’s Fall.

It’s also worth mentioning that our AoE ability Fan of Knives now requires us to have a thrown weapon in our offhand. This means bows and guns are now pretty sub standard for rogues and should be left for other classes to fight over.

Cool downs

Many of our favourite staple cool downs have changed and the mechanics that affect them have also changed. Make sure you are familiar with these changes thoroughly, one of your DPS problems could actually stem from a poor cool down management. For example, you can now use abilities during Killing Spree! So do not wait for the teleporting to finish anymore, keep bashing your rotation out throughout it.

In addition do not ever touch Blade Flurry on a boss! The haste benefit from Blade Flurry is now on Adrenaline Rush instead and Blade Flurry also comes with a significant energy decrease while active. This means using Blade Flurry for any single target mob will always decrease your DPS.

Try to time Killing Spree with your passive proc Bandits Guile to maximise KS damage.

Remember many cool downs are now much shorter and also can be further reduced by finishers. With this in mind keep an eye on your cool downs and make sure they are popped on every cool down as much as possible.

It will definitely take time to sort out your cool downs, macros and rotations so they feel natural to you again. Take some time on the practice dummies and also jump into heroics to practice your cool downs and multiple mob techniques.

Gear Sets

If you were the type of rogue to horde side grades or to partake in an alternative PVE Mutilate spec then now is the time to go through your bags and bank and sort out all your gear. Perhaps there are some secret upgrades you have stored away that could be of use to you? Since the stat changes and particularly the Arp removal from the game many of your old gear alternatives may suddenly become better options for your gear. Play around with your gear set, enter in EP values if you have to to sort out which ones may be more beneficial to you. What was BiS for you pre-patch 4.0.1 may not be so great for you anymore.

What to Do

  • Practice on the training dummy until your fingers bleed
  • Await a nice new spreadsheet preferably from Aldriana!
  • Play with macros to make your rotation easier.
  • Play with your cool downs in heroics.
  • Roll on daggers for your offhand.
  • Make sure your rogue is fully up to date with gems, enchants, reforging.
  • Play with your gear sets.
  • Make sure your Ranged weapon is a thrown in order to use FoK.

Doing all of this won’t suddenly grant you insane combat powers and allow you to beat those pesky mutilate rogues, but it can mean you hold your own against them to a reasonable standard while you wait out the storm. Don’t give up your combat rogue just yet if combat is what you truly love to play. We can wait a little longer while we find out how things are going to develop for combat rogues.

Rogue Enchants and Consumables

Posted on: Oct 23, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (No Ratings Yet)
Loading ... Loading ...

Rogue Enchants and Consumables

In patch 4.0.1 some of the favourable enchants and consumables for rogues have changed due to the tweaks and changes to our stats. This means many rogues will need to re-enchant some of their gear and purchase new food to ensure they are ready for raiding and maximising their DPS. This post will not only detail which of these enchants and consumables have changed or remain the same but also why they have changed using EP values as our basis for comparison.

EP Values

EP stands for Equivalency Points and is the measure by which we can determine the “worth” of each stat compared to other stats. In order to calculate which enchants and consumables will be the best DPS gains for a rogue in patch 4.0.1 we will need to use the new 4.0.1 EP Values for rogues. Today we will just be looking at Mutilate and Combat rogue EP values although Sub values may be released soon.

Combat EP Values

  • Agility 2.88
  • Crit 1.62
  • Haste 2.25
  • Mastery 0.60
  • Expertise 2.20
  • Spell Hit 2.38
  • White Hit 1.69
  • Attack Power 1

Mutilate EP Values

  • Agility 2.8
  • Crit 1.4
  • Haste 2.2
  • Mastery 1.7
  • Expertise 2.6
  • Spell Hit 3.1
  • White Hit 1.7
  • Attack Power 1

Using these values we can now determine which buffs and enhancements are going to be the best DPS increase for rogues and make some comparisons to re-evaluate the old top contenders.

Weapon Enchants

Old Weapon Enchants: [Berserking] MH, [Berserking] OH
EP Value of Berserking: 400 x 1 = 400 EP

Mongoose (same proc rate)
Combat: 120 Agility + 30 Haste = (2.88 x 120) + (30 x 2.25) = 413.1 EP
Mutilate: 120 Agility + 30 Haste = (2.8 x 120) + (30 x 2.2) = 402 EP

Therefore our new MH and OH enchants are: [Mongoose] MH, [Mongoose] OH.

It’s worth mentioning that for a while it looked like black magic may be a contender for combat OH weapons. However this was resolved as a slight error in the Combat 4.0.1 Spreadsheet (created by Lightshadow) and has now been ruled out as a possibility.

Armor Enchants

Only a few of the enchants for armor need to be modified. Essentially speaking if you have any Attack Power enchants on your gear you should consider swapping them out for Agility enchants instead. Here is the new complete list of armor enchants for a rogue in patch 4.0.1:

From this we can see that the back, hands and feet enchants have changed to the agility ones. We can see why by simply plugging in the EP values of each enchant.

Back: [Major Agility] versus [Greater Speed]

22 Agility= 63.36 EP (Combat) and 61.6 EP (Mutilate).
23 Haste = 51.75 EP (Combat) and 50.6 EP (Mutilate).

Hands: [Major Agility] versus [Crusher]

20 Agility = 57.6 EP (Combat) and 56 EP (Mutilate).
44 AP = 44 EP (Combat and Mutilate).

Feet: [Superior Agility] versus [Greater Assault]

16 Agility = 46.08 EP (Combat) and 44.8 EP (Mutilate)
32 AP = 32 EP (Combat and Mutilate).


The flask we use will remain the same. We compared it to the [Elixir of Mighty Agility] just in case and these were the results:

[Flask of Endless Rage] : 180 AP = 180 EP
[Elixir of Mighty Agility] : 45 Agility = 129.6 EP (Combat) and 126 EP (Mutilate).

Therefore the [Flask of Endless Rage] is still the best option for rogues in raids.

For food we no longer have use of Armor Penetration food (Combat only) since the stat has been removed. Combat rogues will therefore need to get rid of their old [Hearty Rhino] as it has now become crit which is quite worthless. We have compared all the major food groups to find out the new winner for both Mutilate and Combat rogues:

Haste Food: 40 Haste Rating
40 Haste = 40 x 2.25 = 90 EP (Combat)
40 Haste = 40 x 2.2 = 88 EP (Mutilate)

Agility Food: 40 Agility
40 Agility = 40 x 2.88 = 115.2 EP (Combat)
40 Agility = 40 x 2.8 = 112 EP (Mutilate)

Attack Power Food: 80 AP (Includes fish feast)
80 AP = 80 x 1 = 80 EP (Combat and Mutilate)

Hit Food: 40 Hit Rating
40 Hit = 40 x 1.69 = 67.6 EP (Combat)
40 Hit = 40 x 1.7 = 68 EP (Mutilate)

Crit Food: 30 Crit Rating
30 Crit = 30 x 1.62 = 48.6 EP (Combat)
30 Crit = 30 x 1.4 = 42 EP (Mutilate)

Therefore the Agility food [Blackened Dragonfin] is now the best food to use in raids for both Mutilate and Combat rogues.

Patch 4.0.1 Glyphs and Reforging for Rogues

Posted on: Oct 14, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (2 votes, average: 4.00 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...

Glyphs Explained in Patch 4.0.1

Right now everything is being argued over, theorycrafters are gouging each other’s eyes out with an ice scream scoop called “math” while others are stabbing “combat log” shivs into their backs. So with everyone humming about this latest patch what have they said about glyphs? Well, it seems Glyphs is the one topic everyone is avoiding! Trawling through the Elitist Jerks 4.0.1 Rogue Guide yielded little results and when it was questioned the post was promptly ignored several times throughout the thread. So it seems for now we are very much on our own when it comes to Glyphs.

Changes to Glyph Mechanics

The way we use glyphs in WoW has changed a lot in Patch 4.0.1 and it’s worth taking note of these changes. First of all we now have 3 tiers of glyphs to use. Where we use to have either Major or Minor Glyphs to choose from we now have Prime, Major and Minor glyphs.

Secondly, once you have learned a glyph you can then use that glyph indefinitely using your Glyph tab (in the Talents window “n”). This means you will no longer need to stack glyphs in your bags to change out per encounter. Once you have learned a glyph it will remain in your Glyph book to use or switch out with others as and when you need them. So, if you are thinking about using a particular glyph for one certain encounter make sure you learn the glyph and you will be able to pop it in a space when you need it and then remove it again afterwards without losing the glyph if you need it in future too.

You will however need to purchase [Vanishing Powder] in order to replace glyphs which can be purchased from an Inscription Vendor for just 32 silver per 5. You only need to have some of this in your bags for it to work, when you click on a new glyph over an old one to replace it, you will see a pop up box asking if you are sure you want to do this and it will cost exactly 1 Vanishing Powder to do so. Click yes and viola, job done. You can view how many powders you have through the Glyph tab on the bottom right hand side.

So far Aldriana recommends the following Prime Glyphs for rogues but unfortunately has not mentioned any Major Glyphs:

Combat Prime Glyphs

[Glyph of Sinister Strike]

[Glyph of Adrenaline Rush]

[Glyph of Rupture]

Mutilate Prime Glyphs

[Glyph of Mutilate]

[Glyph of Backstab]

[Glyph of Rupture]

Other Glyphs to Consider

These are not yet set in stone so be prepared for the recommended glyphs to change at any time. However, you may also wish to consider alternatives to these glyphs. For example, if you are a combat rogue and you are optimising your build for target switching type fights you may not be using Rupture, Mutilate rogues with low haste may also wish to drop rupture for now. Therefore you may wish to consider replacing your Rupture glyph for:

Combat Glyphs: [Glyph of Revealing Strike] or [Glyph of Killing Spree]

Mutilate Glyphs: [Glyph of Vendetta]

Major Glyphs

No definite information about major glyphs has been stated as of yet. So it’s up to us to flesh out a good glyph combo.

[Glyph of Tricks of the Trade]
If you have the two piece Tier 10 set bonus stay away from this glyph. This glyph simply reduces the energy cost of your Tricks ability whereas the Two Piece Tier 10 set bonus not only removes it entirely but also gives you 15 energy. Using this glyph in conjunction with the two piece bonus would simply mean your tricks does less damage. If you happen not to have it, then it could be a good glyph for you to use although it is highly recommended you obtain the two piece set bonus instead.

[Glyph of Blade Flurry] (Combat Only)
For combat rogues this looks like an excellent choice for a major glyph slot. Blade flurry, while it has a reduced cool down is now completely useless for single target encounters but will be used frequently with multiple targets. This will be quite handy for trash, leveling up and multiple mobs in general during boss encounters allowing you to use Blade Flurry much more freely and not just when you have AR or KS free.

[Glyph of Expose Armor] (Probably Mutilate only)
Mutilate rogues with talents in Improved Expose Armor may find this glyph useful. Typically only rogues who suffer from a lack of Prot Warriors in raids would consider this talent but if they do this glyph is the perfect partner for you.

[Glyph of Fan of Knives]
This glyph while at first glance may seem good for multiple targets, may in fact be a bit of a waste of time. Unlike previously where this glyph increased Fan of Knives damage it now simply increases the radius of your Fan of Knives ability. Since the Fan of Knives ability is still 8 yards and this is often ample enough for most situations it may cause you more trouble than anything else when it becomes 12 yards. This remains to be seen however but if you do put this glyph on make sure you get used to it’s new larger radius and don’t go pulling unwanted mobs on your adventures!

[Glyph of Sprint]
This glyph seems to be wonderful for both combat and mutilate rogues. The increase in speed for sprint means you have a better damage up time on encounters with target switching. Helping you get from a to b is always a damage increase even if you can’t see it on the spreadsheets. A must have for all rogues.

[Glyph of Feint]
This glyph focuses on allowing you to avoid heavy AoE and reduce your threat when necessary without deterring you too much from your rotation. Reducing the energy cost of feint could be very handy so you don’t waste too much energy when you nee dot get yourself out of a bind or in fights where heavy AoE damage could be fatal (HC Blood Queen for example). Definitely a glyph worth considering for a spare slot.

[Glyph of Cloak of Shadows]
This glyph focuses on damage reduction and would be particularly helpful on fights such as Heroic Sindragosa where we rogues need to pop our Cloak of Shadows ability often. However this is very situational dependant so make sure you have this glyph to hand and you’ll be able to switch out a lesser glyph such as Glyph of Feint or even Blade Flurry if it’s not needed, for this one on such fights.

Major Glyphs Summary


[Glyph of Sprint]

[Glyph of Blade Flurry]

[Glyph of Fan of Knives] or situational: [Glyph of Cloak of Shadows] or [Glyph of Feint]


[Glyph of Sprint]

[Glyph of Feint]

[Glyph of Fan of Knives] or situational: [Glyph of Cloak of Shadows] or [Glyph of Expose Armor]

Minor Glyphs

Unfortunately for Mutilate rogues the Glyph of Vanish has been removed. So essentially speaking the only 100% solid Minor glyph all rogues need is [Glyph of Safe Fall] to reduce extra falling damage in certain encounters. on a side note you may also wish to consider [Glyph of Poisons] for situational encounters such as the Lich King for rogues that need to switch to Crippling Poison on their weapons to slow down Val’kyr.

A Quick Note on Reforging

Now you have your glyphs sorted out I want to take a minute to talk about reforging. For a complete reforging guide see Reforge me a New One! over at PVE Rogues. To summarize:

What Reforging Does:

  1. Reforging a stat will only convert 40% of that stat to another stat of your choice.
  2. You can only reforge lesser stats such as: Hit, Expertise, Crit and Haste. You cannot reforge Agility.
  3. You can only add lesser stats from reforging too.
  4. Reforging will cost you every single time you do it the vendor cost of the item in question.
  5. You cannot reforge new stats onto gear that already exist on the item. For example, if you have 23 Haste and 23 Crit on your gear, you can reforge the Crit into Hit or Expertise but you cannot turn it into Haste.
Excerpt taken from

As a rogue the main stat you need to reforge is Critical Strike Rating. This is because this is the one Stat on your gear that has the lowest EP value (except for Mastery rating which we don’t have yet). As a rule of thumb you should always reforge all your gear. This will make a huge difference to your DPS overall. The order of reforging stats should be:

Expertise until capped (or extremely close) > Hit until Poison Capped > Hit (on gear that already has the haste stat on it) > Haste

Reforging your gear will therefore ensure you are safely above the poison hit cap and have as much haste as possible. When reforging your gear make sure you first reforge all gear with Haste on it already to obtain the expertise and hit caps before moving onto haste gear if needed. This will ensure you do not reforge items with hit that could be haste and end up after reaching your caps with gear that you cant reforge haste onto.

Patch 4.0.1 – Concise Rogue Guide Level 80

Posted on: Oct 08, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (9 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...

Patch 4.0.1 Rogue Guide

Before Cataclysm is released Blizzard will be launching Patch 4.0.1 to prepare us for this exciting expansion pack. Not only will we get to savour some delicious new quest lines about the Twilight Cultists and their plans to level our home cities but we will also have some time to get used to our new talent builds and abilities before Cataclysm is launched.

As far as rogues go no official theory crafting has yet been published and Aldriana has been taking a back seat to the discussions so far. That means it’s up to us to formulate a solid plan of action for raiding at level 80 with the new builds and abilities. Fear not though, because we’ve done all this leg work for you and this guide will take you through the basics to raiding at Level 80 in Patch 4.0.1.

Combat Talent Build

UPDATED: Level 80 Talent Build: Combat 2/31/3

This talent build can be modified slightly to suit your personal tastes or the types of raids you will be doing.  The main areas of change would be 2/2 [Recuperate] and 2/2 [Reinforced Leather], which are non DPS talents necessary for progressing down the combat talent tree. These can be placed anywhere in the combat tree you prefer as no other talents in the tree can improve DPS. This build has focused on survival which is particularly beneficial for heroic modes or other intense healing scenarios. It’s also a good basis for leveling 80-85 particularly if you are doing it solo without compromising your raiding ability before Cataclysm.

Mutilate Talent Build

Level 80 Talent Build: Mutilate 31/3/2

This build can be exchanged with: Mutilate 31/2/3 depending on the amount of hit you currently have on your rogue. With Mutilate rogues, hit tends to come much easier than combat rogues so it is likely if you are well geared that you will be able to go for the Mutilate 31/2/3 build instead. This again is your own personal choice so make sure you judge it carefully as to whether or not the extra 2% hit is going to wield more DPS for you than another point in [Relentless Strikes]. If your hit is low (i.e. just above the poison hit mark) stick to the basic Mutilate 31/3/2 as it is likely to be much more beneficial to you.

Some talent points within the Assassination tree are also interchangeable. It is strongly recommended you keep the 2/2 [Quickening] talent points as it will indirectly increase damage by increasing damage up time as well as improve survivability in intensive raids. However you may choose to move 1/2 [Deadened Nerves] if you so choose to. As far as level 80 raiding goes however, this is the standard best suitable talent make up.


Red Sockets – Agility (Delicate Cardinal Ruby)
Yellow Sockets – Agility & Haste (Deft Ametrine)
Blue Sockets – Agility & Hit (Glinting Dreadstone)

Agility will be our new number one stat as pure Attack Power and Armor Penetration are no longer available. Attack power and crit will be gained through Agility only and haste will become much more valuable to both Mutilate Rogues and Combat rogues as it effects our Energy Regen. So far initial theory crafting has placed haste caps at 7,000% so currently there is no limit to the amount of haste you can stack as a rogue. However, Agility will remain our number one stat and will come as top priority for all sockets.

Additionally, Hit rating has now become a blue gem allowing us to place mixed Agility and Hit (Glinting Dreadstone) gems in our blue sockets. This will prove much more useful to us and hopefully mean more socket bonuses are kept and not ignored. However this also means you can expect a massive regem when Patch 4.0.1 is launched as your socket bonuses and gems may be completely mixed up (in particular combat rogues).

Armor Penetration

This stat is being completely removed from the game. Rogues will no longer be able to stack any amount of Armor Penetration and all Armor Penetration that currently exists in the game will be converted into Critical Strike Rating. This means many combat rogues will have an excess of Crit at level 80 and this will need minimising as soon as possible. If you have a spare Mutilate gear set get it out ready for the patch as it will be much easier to balance stats and regem than your combat set.

Combat Max DPS Rotation

* 3 x SS
* SnD
* 4 x SS
* 1 x RvS
* Eviscerate
* 5 x SS
* SnD
* repeat from 4 x SS

This rotation factors in our new combo point generating ability [Revealing Strike] (RvS). In order to prevent an RvS where it is not necessary and to prevent RvS timing out at low energy levels the rotation places RvS as the last combo point in our rotation. So far it has been suggested that if a 2 combo point Sinister Strike lands at the 4 combo point mark (making 5 combo points before an RvS) then it is still beneficial to use one RvS even though your combo points are full so that the buff from RvS can be used. Never use an RvS when you are refreshing your Slice and Dice as RvS is weaker than Sinister Strike and does not affect SnD in any way. Do not forget to use Tricks of the Trade on every cool down.

Mutilate Max DPS Rotation

*Vendetta & Tricks of the Trade
*1 x Mutilate
*2 x Mutilate
*if target < 35% Health: 5 x Backstab, else 2 x Mutilate
*if target < 35% Health: 5 x Backstab, else 2 x Mutilate
*if Rupture < 11 seconds Rupture, else repeat from Envenom.

This rotation looks a lot more complicated than we are used to seeing with Mutilate rogues. The good news is [Vendetta] (the new HfB) does not require a bleed effect to activate. Make sure you keep Vendetta refreshed throughout the fight and try not to clip it by more than a second or two. This means Mutilate rogues will have a lot more interesting things to do instead of the cool downs that Combat rogues enjoy.

The rotation is basically the same as it has always been, simply make sure you keep Rupture up as well on your target and keep refreshing SnD by using Envenom at 4 or 5 point combos. Additionally, when your target is below 35% your backstab ability is suddenly much more powerful so if you are in a boss fight where you are naturally behind your target you can start using Backstab instead of Mutilate at this point. Remember to always keep your Tricks of the Trade ability on cool down just like combat rogues, and use Vanish and Garrote on every cool down too in order to activate your Overkill ability.


There are lots of changes going on at the moment with rogues as you can see and it will take a long time to get used to them and to iron out all the wrinkles. Topics such as glyphs are still very much up in the air at the moment and it could take some time before the final values are released. As with all new expansions and patches where the mechanics are modified you can expect to see yet more changes popping up as time goes on so make sure you keep checking back for updates and new information. In the meantime this is a solid base to begin your new raiding lives at Level 80 and hopefully you will get all you need to get done before the Expansion Cataclysm is finally launched on 7th December 2010.

Gearing up your Rogue in Patch 3.3.5

Posted on: Sep 30, 2010 | Author: Garona

1 Star2 Stars3 Stars4 Stars5 Stars (5 votes, average: 4.20 out of 5)
Loading ... Loading ...

ICC Ready Combat and Mutilate Rogues


If you have a new rogue, an alt rogue or even your main rogue who needs a bit of TLC the gear choices out there can be somewhat confusing and daunting. This guide will take you through the steps for gearing your character quickly and effectively ready for Icecrown Raiding straight away.


First of all a brief explanation on how to get gear in the first place. There are a few different methods for doing so and these are:

  • HEROICS – Many of the instances you can do while leveling up can be completed at the level cap of 80 on heroic mode. Completing these heroic dungeons will give you a) Better loot drops and b) Emblems of Triumph (1 per boss in the encounter, maximum of 5 emblems per instance).
  • RANDOM HEROIC DAILY – Every day you will be able to complete a random heroic through the Dungeon Finder Tool. Selecting to find a group for a random WOTLK heroic dungeon will reward you with 2 x Emblems of Frost for the first dungeon completed that day and 2 x Emblem of Triumph for each subsequent random dungeon completed on the same day.
  • WEEKLY RAID – The weekly raid quest can be picked up in Dalaran near the Violet Hold instance. The weekly raid is usually completable by anyone regardless of current gear levels. Simply ask to join a raid group through trade and complete the quest by killing the required boss in that raid. The Weekly Raid will provide you with a) Epic quality gear drops from the boss and b) 5 x Emblems of Frost and 5 x Emblem of Triumph. This quest can only be completed once a week in line with raid lockouts.
  • Emblems of Triumph – These emblems themselves can also provide you with additional gear. In order to obtain full ICC ready gear Emblems of Triumph (EoT) will be very important for your rogue. You can trade in EoT with the EoT Vendor in Dalaran in the Silver Enclave (above the room with all the portals in).  EoT vendors provide you with either a) Item Level 245 gear or b) Emblems of Conquest or lower. Exchanging your emblems for other emblems will always mean you are exchanging them for lower quality gear. When you obtain Conquest Emblems, you are acquiring ilvl 226 gear, Valor Emblems are ilvl 213 gear, and Heroism Emblems are ilvl 200 gear. The higher the ilvl of a gear item, the more useful it is likely to be to you.
  • Emblems of Frost – This is currently the highest level of Emblem you can obtain in Wrath of the Lich King as of Patch 3.3.5. You can only obtain Emblems of Frost (EoF) from completing the weekly raid, the daily random heroic dungeon and raiding in Icecrown Citadel (ICC – the highest level raid available). You will not be able to go to ICC until you are properly geared for it first so raiding for EoF is not an option to gear up your rogue.

Now you know what to do to get your gear now we will help you decide which gear is best to obtain before you begin raiding in Icecrown Citadel. The easiest and quickest way to obtain good rogue gear ready for raiding is to farm heroics as much as possible for EoT. EoT will be your main staple method for obtaining gear, however make sure you do complete the random heroic dungeon every day as well as as many weekly raids as you can while gearing up.


Your goal is to obtain a total of 310 Emblems of Triumph.


You will then be able to acquire from the Emblem of Triumph Vendor the following gear:

Alongside farming heroics for emblems you will also need to specifically complete the following dungeons at least once per day for additional gear drops:


Forge of Souls Heroic
Pit of Saron Heroic
Halls of reflection Heroic
Forge of Souls Normal


Doing these instances will give you the following gear items to add to your set:

Combat Specific Items:

Mutilate Specific Items:

Additional Gear


You will also need to obtain an additional 28 Emblems of Triumph and convert them into Emblems of Conquest to obtain [Belt of the Twilight Assassin].

Mutilate rogues only, will need to obtain another 50 EoT for [Shard of the Crystal Heart] as thier Trinket02 slot instead of the Needle-Encrusted Scorpion (NES).


Final Notes


Once you have the above gear set in full you will also need to supplement it with upgrades from the Emblems of Frost vendors. This will ensure you are easily Icecrown Citadel 10 man and 25 man ready. Without frost gear you will only be ICC10 ready until you gear up further. However, you do not need to start thinking about ICC25 until you have obtained plenty of gear drops from 10 man ICC first as well as some EoF vendor items. If you are a part of a raiding guild they may be happy to boost you in ICC25 mans once you are ICC10 man ready. In addition you may also purchase certain gear items from the Auction House if you have enough money. Many good gear items can be purchased or crafted so keep an eye on the AH for ilvl 245 and ilvl 264 gear for rogues.